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Hey, imisshimbad, you have 59
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Jul 24th, 2004, 6:14pm
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Topic: URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
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imisshimbad
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #150 on: Apr
17th, 2004, 11:42am » |
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
11:31am, Batchain115
wrote:
But
divestiture only means putting it in the hands
of someone or something else. You still have the
money and that inevitably means buying "other
stock". Think back to when Harvard University
wanted to "look good" by selling its stock in
Apartheit-supporting South African corporations.
The corporations lost nothing at all and Harvard
lost nothing at all. It just "looked good" for
Harvard's P.R. purposes.
--Bat
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I'm
not sure what you're getting at, but I think we're
saying the same thing?...if it turns out that
Nader knowingly invested in a company that is
actually "dirty" (whether through Fidelity, or
directly himself), then he is not "clean".
I wouldn't accept that this is the
case without a closer look at both links Jimmie
posted, but are we saying the same thing Bat?
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
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Batchain115
L.O.R.D.
Ultimately, who gives a
fuck anyway?
Posts: 2229
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #151 on: Apr
17th, 2004, 11:56am » |
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
11:42am, imisshimbad
wrote:
I'm
not sure what you're getting at, but I think
we're saying the same thing?...if it turns out
that Nader knowingly invested in a company that
is actually "dirty" (whether through Fidelity,
or directly himself), then he is not "clean".
I wouldn't accept that this is the
case without a closer look at both links Jimmie
posted, but are we saying the same thing Bat?
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No,
imisshimbad, sorry. It means he can't make 'em
hurt and he has to find "The Clean Corporation,
Inc." (or "LLC", if you can find even a vaguely
comprehansible definition of that) and the
late Mother Theresa never made an IPO.
--Bat |
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"If Frank Zappa had ever pissed in my
minestroni soup I'd have had something to eat and
and something to listen to, too." --
Batchain115
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jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADAR!!
« Reply
#152 on: Apr 17th, 2004, 12:02pm
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
11:56am, Batchain115
wrote:
No, imisshimbad,
sorry. It means he can't make 'em hurt and he
has to find "The Clean Corporation, Inc." (or
"LLC", if you can find even a vaguely
comprehansible definition of that) and
the late Mother Theresa never made an IPO.
--Bat
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Maybe
I've misunderstood you, Mr. Chain, but in business
terms "LLC" means "limited liability company".
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #153 on: Apr
17th, 2004, 12:13pm » |
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I found this interesting page,
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemId=9114
I thought it was interesting
because it has some responses from Nader on the
Occidental topic. i'm going to have to look into
this more, and sleep on it to see what it means.
I see one point of not being able to
have money invested in funds like Fidelity w/o
some of it going for companies you don't like,
(because funds break up invested dollars into
hundreds of companies within the same fund,
including companies you don't like). Even my
pension fund at work (of which I can't control),
has investments in places i don't like...And even
my job sent me to Lockheed Martin for 3 days last
month, (although it's the first time in 16 yeard
I've had a moral conflict with my job).
But on the other hand, investing
even one indirect dollar in something you don't
believe in, should that disqualify you from
getting votes when running for president, (meaning
to be true to our morals, we can't vote for Bush,
Kerry, OR Nader? (if it is true that he is guilty
by association). Certainly if this is true, then
anyone who votes for nader is just as wrong as
someone who votes for Kerry, (or are Kerry's
voters worse because Kerry's "crimes" are
multiple, more severe, and tied directly from
Kerry's deliberate actions.
I had a
lot of respect for Zardoz's Libertarian views
before...but I didn't suspect that they might move
into my "primary choice".
This has a
lot of value to me to be disillusioned in this
way. However one of the values it doesn't have it
to say "Vote Kerry, not Nader because of this
reason", because kerry is still (clearly, on the
books of the voting record), a much worse offender
than Ralph might be, (if indeed it turns out that
Ralph is guilty by association).
Folks are correct to hold me to my
principle and show me something that is making me
consider the wisdom of nader, but they can't in
turn discard that same principle and say it's OK
for me to go with them and vote Kerry.
...IMHO.
Lol, questions
questions questions...flooding into the minds of
today's youth... |
| « Last Edit: Apr
17th, 2004, 12:46pm by
imisshimbad » |
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #154 on: Apr
17th, 2004, 12:32pm » |
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I'll return to the fray later...right
now it's 60F out, the warmest all year so
far..time for a long ass bike trek! I got some new
music for the ride(: |
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IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
Batchain115
L.O.R.D.
Ultimately, who gives a
fuck anyway?
Posts: 2229
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #155 on: Apr
17th, 2004, 12:48pm » |
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
12:02pm, jimmie
d wrote:
Maybe I've
misunderstood you, Mr. Chain, but in business
terms "LLC" means "limited liability company".
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My
fault! I know it means "Limited Liability Company"
-- but that's where it begins and ends. It's the
legal definition that I have no
understanding of and the attempts at a definition
I've heard have, at best, been only "guesses by
people who should know" who end off with
something like, "You'd really need a good
corporate lawyer to explain it to you accurately,
this is just my hopefully correct, general
understanding of what I understand it to mean."
--Bat |
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IP
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"If Frank Zappa had ever pissed in my
minestroni soup I'd have had something to eat and
and something to listen to, too." --
Batchain115
| | |
jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADER!!
« Reply
#156 on: Apr 17th, 2004, 12:56pm
» |
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
12:48pm, Batchain115
wrote:
My
fault! I know it means "Limited Liability
Company" -- but that's where it begins and ends.
It's the legal definition that I have no
understanding of and the attempts at a
definition I've heard have, at best, been only
"guesses by people who should know" who
end off with something like, "You'd really need
a good corporate lawyer to explain it to you
accurately, this is just my hopefully correct,
general understanding of what I understand it to
mean."
--Bat
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In
a nutshell, LLCs provide limited liability to
their members, however are taxed like a
partnership, preventing double taxation.
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #157 on: Apr
18th, 2004, 7:22am » |
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Ralph is on CNN today (Sunday), on
Wolf Blitzer's Late Edition. I think around 1:15pm
if anyone would like to catch him. Broadcast times
may vary, so please check your local listings.
btw, I did some preliminary looking
into the General Dynamics/Oxychem stuff, (hell,
it's the weekend, I'm beat). Looks like something
pretty lame, with spin, then trumped up with words
like "hypocrate", etc. Looks like Ralph did
something many millions of us do by buying a fund
that was split between investments, some of which
are company's he is active against, (which
is a far cry from "other" politicians actively on
the take, actively investing specifically in that
company, then actively PROMOTING it's wishes
against the American public).
There have been times in my
life when my 401 was in index funds (it's mostly
in fixed now), meaning many companies I am not
fond of...but as they say in New York, having had
these index funds 'doesn't make me a bad person'.
(I was probably more 'guilty' going down to
Lockheed to work for three days last month, at
least that was something i directly did). I chose
index funds because in the late 80's through early
90's I wanted to be in the market and I wanted
something stable (index funds are the most
stable), and I wanted something I didn't have
to pay attention to. Even though I owned them,
I am here sincerely trying to promoting
voting the power away from corporate funded
players like Bush and Kerry. Similar to Nader,
there is no lack of sincerity, not lack of
energy in my wish to try to beat corporate control
because I owned index funds. With the funds split
between hundreds of companies, some of them are
bound to be the ones I want to put out of
busness...hell, millions of americans own index
funds, some of the stocks are in companies they
don't like...maybe that makes Ralph more
representative of Americans.
I
suppose we should expect (and not be taken off
guard as I was yesterday by) sensationalized
stories about any candidate running for president.
A lot of people have ulterior motives, they want
one of the other candidates to win,
(although it's funny they falsely accuse
candidates of stuff their own guy does multiple
times, meddling directly with company boards, and
with American laws, with true life conflicts of
interest...hurting Americans along the way for
their own gain).. You'd think they would be afraid
to call attention to what their own guy is doing).
I wonder if some of these people are the same ones
who are deathly afraid of Ralph on the debate
stage with their man, they may know who will fare
better in front of tens of millions of Americans.
I'd like if they also made up some reasons why
Nader shouldn't be on the debate stage when 64% of
the people want him there, it would entertaining
what some of them would come up with for reasons.
It's pretty well known how frugal
Ralph lives, and what how most of the money from
his lectures is reinvested in over 100 citizen
activism groups. I remember on TV, I think it was
in 96, a reporter eas interviewing him and sais
"Why you driving this old Rambler when you can
afford such a nice car"? and Ralph said, "Because
it serves me well".
There is no
compareson between your standard fare corporate
fat cat politician and Ralph. I hope he get's in
the debates, and if so I'll have no problem
pullin' the handle for American workers in
November...I like that lever a lot better than the
corporate ones.
Anyways, Nader's on
CNN today if anyone is interested.
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IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
|
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADAR!!
« Reply
#158 on: Apr 18th, 2004, 11:18am
» |
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Ralph Nader Hangs Up On Randi
Rhodes
http://www.airamericaradio.com/
Within
6 hours of signing on air, the Air America Radio
network had three of the four 2000 major party
candidates for president--all except President
George W. Bush.
Scheduled
guest Ralph Nader spoke to afternoon drivetime
host Randi Rhodes, on her program The Randi Rhodes
Show. After a particularly heated exchange, which
included Rhodes telling Nader that Americans can't
afford him running for president in 2004, Nader
hung up her.
Later in the program,
Rhodes spoke to 2000 Reform Party presidential
candidate Pat Buchanan.
Earlier in the day on
The O'Franken Factor, former Vice President Al
Gore called into the show to speak to co-hosts Al
Franken and Katherine Lanpher. |
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #159 on: Apr
18th, 2004, 12:50pm » |
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if I got the just of it here:
"which included Rhodes telling Nader that
Americans can't afford him running for president
in 2004, Nader hung up her."
Isn't that sorta anti-American? It's
anti-free speech saying that Americans can't
afford to have someone run for president. If
someone has the right to tell me that, then I have
the right to tell them to shut up, that
they "can't" talk.
Especially to
take someone that millions of Americans like, that
according to the latest CNN poll 64% of Americans
want in the debates, and say "Americans can't
afford to have him run". I'm not impressed.
I didn't catch the show, but it
might re-air tonight. I'm guessing Ralph tried to
reason with her, but she already knew she was
right so she wasn't listening to any of his
reasons?
If that's she case, and she
was like talking to a wall, I probably
woulda hung up on her too.
I might
be speaking too soon cuz I didn't hear the show,
but I'd fathom a guess that it was something like
a free speech issue that she was blocking out.
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IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #160 on: Apr
18th, 2004, 12:52pm » |
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If he can get on all the states
ballots by passing their requirements, (often
needing tens of thousands of hand signatures from
citizens....then we can afford to have him run.
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IP
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #161 on: Apr
18th, 2004, 1:00pm » |
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Lol, to use Rhodes's logic, the two
people we can't "afford" to have run are Bush and
Kerry... see what you can "afford" after 4 more
years of donating to corporate with either one of
them!
If you ask me, it's not the
people who are voting for Nader that's the
problem, it's the ones voting for Kerry and Bush!
Somebody tell 'em they can't run! |
| « Last Edit: Apr
19th, 2004, 10:07am by
imisshimbad » |
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
Noah
Senior
Member
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FOWL!
Posts: 297
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #162 on: Apr
20th, 2004, 2:07am » |
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I saw John Kerry on ABC last night,
it was on REALLY late, so I'm assuming it was a
rerun and do not know when it originally aired,
but the last question was after ackowledging that
he and Bush were both part of the elite Mason
group Skull and Bones, if during a debate they ask
about the club would he leave the stage?
Kerry just laughed and said well probably not
and didn't really say much else, other than
acknowledging that he's not allowed to talk about
it. Would the Journalistic thing to do be to
pry and try to figure out WHY THE FUCK EVERYONE
WHO'S EVER BEEN PRESIDENT (save a scant few) HAS
BEEN A MEMBER OF THE SAME SECRETIVE CLUB.
Wake up. |
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jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADAR!!
« Reply
#163 on: Apr 20th, 2004, 2:22am
» |
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on Apr 20th, 2004,
2:07am, Noah
wrote:
I saw John Kerry on
ABC last night, it was on REALLY late, so I'm
assuming it was a rerun and do not know when it
originally aired, but the last question was
after ackowledging that he and Bush were both
part of the elite Mason group Skull and Bones,
if during a debate they ask about the club would
he leave the stage?
Kerry just
laughed and said well probably not and didn't
really say much else, other than acknowledging
that he's not allowed to talk about it.
Would the Journalistic thing to do be to
pry and try to figure out WHY THE FUCK EVERYONE
WHO'S EVER BEEN PRESIDENT (save a scant few) HAS
BEEN A MEMBER OF THE SAME SECRETIVE CLUB.
Wake up.
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What
you may have seen was NBC's "Meet The Press" with
Tim Russert. It was originally aired Sunday
morning and re-run 13-1/2 hours later at night. I
viewed the program, and Tim Russert and John Kerry
had an exchange very similar to the one you've
described. |
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IP
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
| | |
Batchain115
L.O.R.D.
Ultimately, who gives a
fuck anyway?
Posts: 2229
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADER!!
« Reply #164 on: Apr
29th, 2004, 3:09pm » |
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on Apr 17th, 2004,
12:56pm, jimmie
d wrote:
In a nutshell,
LLCs provide limited liability to their members,
however are taxed like a partnership, preventing
double taxation.
| |
You
have that part correct and since the tax codes
have been revised with such frequency it's
necessary to keep up with them nearly on a weekly
basis to be current. One tax consultant I know
personally who has to remain current for the
clearly implicit reason said, "In the last 15
years I have spent more time pouring over some of
the most convoluted, cross-referenced
documentation than I have in the previous 30 and
I'm happy to say that I'm now looking at
retirement, a day that can't come soon enough, I
still can't as yet quite pin a date on it and feel
safe."
--Bat |
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"If Frank Zappa had ever pissed in my
minestroni soup I'd have had something to eat and
and something to listen to, too." --
Batchain115
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