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Hey, imisshimbad, you have 59
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Jul 24th, 2004, 6:15pm
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Topic: URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR [sic]
!!
« Reply #195
on: Jul 2nd, 2004, 10:34pm
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on Jul 2nd, 2004,
10:45am, jimmie
d wrote:
"I think
Ralph Nader is the biggest liar in American
politics
when he said it didn't matter who
was president."
James Carville
Thursday,
October 11, 2001
The Northwestern Daily
"A vote for Nader is a
vote for George W. Bush," Lieberman said in a
phone interview. "How will you feel if you
vote for Nader, and as a result Bush carried
Washington and Oregon?" he asked of those
opposed to Bush. "You will wake up on Nov. 8
with George Bush as president-elect, with ideas
diametrically opposite to your own."
Saturday, October 28, 2000
Seattle
Post-Intelligencer
Robert Borosage, who
organized a liberal conference shortly after the
2000 election, but omitted Nader, said: "When
you announce that the Greens are going to run
against Democratic candidates, we tend to take
that kind of thing personally. Nader has been a
man of enormous integrity, but he led people on
a fool's errand last year, and now he seems to
be in a box he can't get out of." -- Common
Dreams 3-4-01
Amy Isaacs, national
director of Americans for Democratic Action,
said: "What's done is done, but if in the face
of everything, they're still going to threaten
good Democratic members in 2002-- well, if he
wants to commit political suicide, okay, but he
can't ask me to drink the Kool-Aid with him."
July 2001, Mother Jones
magazine | |
Hey,
wait a minute, all those attacks on Ralph above
are from Democrats, lol.
1. From
James Carvalle "Rx for the Democrats":
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8430
It's telling that his best defence
is to accuse Ralph of being a liar which is
ridicules, but it's doubly so when it's based on
an intentional misquote as above. Way to go James,
I guess that's the worst thing he's got on Ralph,
which also doesn't say much for the best thing
he's got on Kerry.
But anyway, on
James Carville helping the Democrats:
"On
Iraq, Carville said Democrats "should not
exaggerate the facts," but merely state and
restate them. "They lied to get us in. They don't
know how to get us out," he said. "How did they
not know the country wasn't divided? How do you
commit 150,000 troops with no plan to get out? All
we have to do is remind people of that."
Kerry's going to "stay the
course." Maybe we should remind people of that
too.
2. Lieberman, obviously a
Democrat, no need to say more here.
3. Robert Borosage, here's Robert
toting the Democrat line from way back, I guess
the Democrats are "still recovering."
Recovering Democrats: A Note from
Robert Borosage
http://www.ourfuture.org/onmessage/borosage/9_26_01.cfm
"On foreign policy, he said America
used to be respected abroad "for strength, values
and the ability to work with others." But the
"arrogant, go-it-alone" administration policies
have reversed all that, he said."
But wait a
minute, Kerry wants 14 bases, more troops and 10
years of occupation too.
4. Amy
Isaacs, more Democrat stuff, don't need to
say much more here.
http://www.adaction.org/testimony070600.html
Democrats tend to put down Ralph as
a means of defending Kerry.
Compared to
intellectuals like Chomsky, a Democrat dissing
Ralph doesn't mean a whole lot. I don't tend to
buy into that stuff.
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 IP
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
MentalTossFlycoon
L.O.R.D.
That's why I'm movin'
to Montana...
Posts: 3608
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #196 on: Jul
3rd, 2004, 1:31am » |
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This tactic by the Republicans is
brilliant, but it's also highly dangerous.
It's brilliant because the
Republicans know that Nader won't have enough
support to win any state, and will take more votes
from Kerry than from Bush. Oregon, New Hampshire
and Florida could go either way; so by helping to
get Nader on the ballot in those states, the
Republicans hope to take enough votes from Kerry
to make Bush win.
It's dangerous
because this election will have a lot of swing
voters (people who could go either way). If enough
of those swing voters realize the tactic the
Republicans are using, the tactic could backfire.
It's basically a scorched-earth
policy. The Republicans know they have a
significant chance of losing this election, so
they're willing to take some chances.
And don't rule out Howard Stern -
the King of All Media Swing. He's so pissed
at Bush that he's been pushing Kerry with gusto.
His 8-10 million listeners - the majority of whom
are identified as swing voters - could decide this
election.
Thanks to Mrs. Flycoon for
pointing this out...
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IP
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This is the Central Scrutinizer. As
you can see, music can get you pretty fucked up.
Take a tip from Joe - do like he did - hock your
imaginary guitar, and get a good
job...
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jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADER!!
« Reply
#197 on: Jul 18th, 2004, 11:16pm
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IP
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #198 on: Jul
19th, 2004, 9:09am » |
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Nader's one million can't do much
against what's estimated to be on track for more
than 1.4 billion in TV ad's raised by the two
corporate parties. American's are like a deer in
the headlights in the face of an advertizing blitz
like this.
80% of the money the D's
and R's have is from just one tenth of the top 1%
of the wealthiest of this country. Tell me who's
bidding we are doing by voting in favor of the
wealthiest of the wealthy?
Both Bush
and Kerry are war candidates, here are Wolf
Blitzer's words from CNN, they are worth
repeating:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Blitzer: One
of the major differences between you on the one
hand, and the Democrat and Republican presidential
tickets on the other hand, is that you want to get
out of Iraq as quickly as possible. You want an
orderly withdrawel, you told us that a few of
months ago on this program. What kind of time line
are you looking at if you’re elected president, to
get out of Iraq.
Nader: Well along with the
majority of the American people, which the
Nader/Camejo ticket represents, six months
responsible withdrawel.
As
our troops and corprorations end their military
and corporate occupation, international
peacekeepers come in, there’s less reason for a
lot of these peacekeepers. Why? Because millions
of the Iraqi people will distance themselves from
the insurgency if they know they’re getting their
country back without a military and corporate US
occupation, and without a US puppet government.
I mean it’s so obvious, the
intelligence analysts believe this, foreign
diplomats believe this. Go and check the Council
on Foreign Relations. (http://www.cfr.org/ ).
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1089725047
Americans obviously want to spend
their taxes on pushing this rich man's war instead
of programs at home. Bush and Kerry want to make
the American CIA staffed government stick in Iraq.
Bush and Kerry want to push the military
occupation, Kerry want's to push it ten years.
Both Bush and Kerry want to ram the 14 military
bases down their throat's, and both bush and kerry
want to continue selling billions in weapons to
Israel.
Gee, I wonder what causes
terrorism?
If things don't change,
if people don't start talking about justice, then
Kerry shall win, and we'll have at least another 4
years of violence. And while we're financing the
escalation of that violence, we won't have enough
tax money left at home to start fixing needed
things at home.
Me? I've done my
job, I've stood up practically alone for justice.
I've passed all the information I've dug up, and I
shall vote for Nader. What other American's do is
up to them. If they must vote for the wealthiest
1%, then they shal learn later the hard way, that
the wealthy have won again. We fell for it hook
line and sinker. That's OK though, Kerry looks
good on TV.
What really get's me
though is...why do so few people understand what's
going on? The wealthy have taken away so much from
us, leaving us in devestating insecurity, and we
keep on rallying around them and voting their guys
back in to fuck us over some more. We're about to
do it again while we shun the one candidate who is
not on the take. It's amazing to me.
But as I've said, I've stood up for
what I believe in, and said all I have to say.
There is no blood on my hands. |
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IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADER!!
« Reply
#199 on: Jul 19th, 2004, 10:39pm
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60340-2004Jul18.html
Republicans Helping Nader To Help
Themselves
By Brian Faler
Monday, July 19, 2004; Page A04
The Michigan Republican Party
submitted more than 40,000 signatures last week in
a bid to get independent presidential candidate
Ralph Nader on the state's November ballot.
Of course, this is not really
about helping Nader. It is all about helping
President Bush and hurting Democratic presidential
candidate John F. Kerry's campaign in a closely
contested state.
The Michigan
GOP denies that, of course. Matt Davis, a
spokesman for the group, said it was merely
concerned about third-party candidates being left
off the ballot. He could not name, however,
another third-party or independent candidate his
party has helped.
Nader may
need the Republican signatures. He has been
endorsed by the Reform Party and had planned to
use its line on the Michigan ballot. But a dispute
over who runs the party's state chapter -- and
which candidate it supports -- has thrown that
into question.
Nader's
campaign, assuming that he would run with the
Reform Party there, stopped collecting signatures
more than a month ago -- and turned in fewer than
6,000 of them by Thursday's deadline. He needed
about 30,000 valid signatures to qualify as an
independent.
Nader spokesman
Kevin Zeese said the campaign still hopes to run
with the state's Reform Party. But he said it may
have to use the Republican-sponsored signatures:
"We have to get on the ballot somehow."
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IP
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #200 on: Jul
20th, 2004, 8:48am » |
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I don't know if that's a bad thing,
if it's supposed to be.
Nader stopped
collecting signatures in Michigan when he received
the Reform Party nomination, making signature
collection unnecessary in Michigan. But later
squabbling within the Reform party showed it
prudent to get signatures to be sure he would be
on the ballot there just in case.
The way I see it, Republicans are
people too, and if they sign to put someone on the
ballot, then it's all right if their signatures
count too. Many Republicans don't like the
financial irresponsibility of the bush
administration.
Ralph has collected
hundreds of thousands of signatures from citizens
so far to put him on the ballots. Getting the
support of the people in their signatures is
something the Democrat's and Republicans don't
have to bother with...they can just worry about
collecting millions and millions of
dollars...that's their collection of
representation. Whomever collects the most money
get's the nomination, (as Kucinich found out). 80%
of the millions and millions collected by Kerry
and Bush is from 1/10th of the top 1% of the
wealthiest in this country...so it's easy to see
who Kerry and Bush represent, they represent the
1/10th of 1% of the wealthiest. That's why we will
be mired in war and violence if either Kerry or
Bush get's in.
I am against war. I
dont care if it's not "cool" to be against war,
I'm against it anyway. I will never vote for a war
candidate.
In truth, this forum and
the people in it are very important to me because
Zappa has been so important to me all my life.
But if I lose all my friends here because I am
outspoken and stand up for the innocent who will
be killed by either Bush's OR Kerry's corporate
war, I'll be very saddened...but it's more
important to stand up for people who will die
under US bombs. If it's not "cool' to be against
war, then so be it.
I'm for a military and
corporate withdrawel from the Arab world, Israel,
and from Indonesia. Period.
(edited
after further posts, i just jumped in and
corrected spelling in the line "Republicans are
people too" ). |
| « Last Edit: Jul
21st, 2004, 7:26am by imisshimbad
» |
IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADER!!
« Reply
#201 on: Jul 20th, 2004, 8:06pm
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"Ralph Nader's ego is so huge, it sits
next to him. He should give it a name."
Randi Rhodes
19 July 2004
http://www.airamericaradio.com/pub/globalDefault.htm
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IP
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"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #202 on: Jul
21st, 2004, 7:20am » |
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Lol, I was going to answer this
morning, but then I realized that the above post
also makes it's own answer
...but I can't resist
since we went with the deep wisdom of Randi
again...
Randi Rhodes for President!
hehehe(:
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IP
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
jimmie
d
L.O.R.D.
"You can't write a chord
ugly enough to say what you want to say sometimes,
so you have to rely on a giraffe filled with
whipped cream." - FZ
Posts: 3648
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URGENT: STOP RALPH
NADER!!
« Reply
#203 on: Jul 21st, 2004, 9:21am
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on Jul 20th, 2004,
8:06pm, jimmie
d wrote:
on Jul 21st, 2004, 7:20am,
imisshimbad
wrote:
Lol, I was going to
answer this morning, but then I realized that
the above post also makes it's own answer
...but I can't resist
since we went with the deep wisdom of Randi
again...
Randi Rhodes for
President!
hehehe(:
| |
"It'll
be like Frank Zappa - a
thousand transistor radios going at once -
DANCE!"
Randi Rhodes
20 July 2004
(describing the expected din at the upcoming
Democrat Convention) |
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IP
Logged |
"If Frank Zappa cut a fart and mixed
it to stereo, I'd buy it!!!" - jimmie d
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imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #204 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 11:10am » |
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Continued from the "Ketchup is a fruit"
thread...
http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1090375678
on Jul 21st, 2004,
2:27pm, jimmie
d wrote:
...sez you...
...you say catsup, and I say
ketchup...
...lets call the whole thing
off... | |
On
a cerial note here....
Jimmy-d, if
your car ever broke down at 4:00 am in
connecticut, and you called me, I'd bring you
tools, and if we couldnt fix it and you needed a
place to sleep, my house would be open for you and
your buddies. That's a given.
You
give a lot to this forum. Even though my political
views are changing and will differ from time to
time with other's, I don't forget what this forum
is made of, or how it got built. This forum is my
home* and you were helping build it even before I
found it. Therefore, the Nader thread is for
political discussion, but out here, at least from
my view, there is nothing to call off
...the rest of this answer
is in the Nader thread, (lol, where it belongs?).
http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1077553209;start=195#195
*
(because Zappa was fundamental
in forming my personality and individuality),
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, now for the rest of this
answer....
First I'll quote Noah
from this thread.....
on Mar
23rd, 2004, 2:00am, Noah
wrote:
| Don't think people
can't change their minds, they can.
| |
It's
true. People wake up every morning reweighing
their evaluations. People constantly change their
minds, especially when a lot of new information is
added. I've been trying to find new information in
search of my best decision on who to support in
this election cycle. I've posted a lot of this
information so other people can read it in their
own constant reevaluations, (I hope it's been
entertaining, and interesting).
I have changed
my mind on who to support, at first I considered
Dean just to stop Bush, then that got changed to
Kerry when he started looking like the one. It
became necessary to take a closer look at Kerry's
voting record, not good. Then I looked at Kerry's
stated plans for Iraq to push the
military/corporate occupation, ten years and 14
bases on the oil in their land. I looked at the
arguably fundamental thorn, Israel, tens of
billions of weapons sales there, and even Kerry's
que's of intent to the oil folks in
'Petroliumworld' on the upcoming Venezuela
situation. I realized this guy's adjenda is
practically identical to Bush's in the most
dangerous ways, he's voted that way, and he's
stated his future intentions in the Arab world. Of
course spending all those hundreds of billions on
war abroad is going to bankrupt us from fixing the
things we're desperate for at home, so as far as
my two most important things, terrorism, and
providing for our future at home, Kerry, like
Bush, fails miserably, IMHO, it makes little
difference if one gets in or the other, I truly
feel that's reality. I supose that's only logical
considering where the money comes from that
supports them both.
So at first I
wanted to push to get Nader onto the debate stage
with these losers. I felt (still feel), that there
will be a huge swing in the polls after the first
debate, which would give even more people courage
for other's to vote their heart instead of their
blind fear of Bush, causing the polls to swing
even more. But in the beginning my idea was to
vote Kerry to stop Bush IF NADER COULDNT GET INTO
A DEBATE. Now I don't feel that way, mostly
because kerry also wants to push corporate in
Iraq, and the 14 US military bases around the oil.
That will absolutly cause more death and
suffering, just under Kerry's name instead of
Bush's. And if I voted for that, then it's
suffering under my name too, I can't vote for
that.
So even if no uprising of awareness
hasn't happened in this country by November, I
still can't vote for Kerry. I must vote for the
man who will immediatly pull the
military/corporate occupation, and send a signal
that the US now represents it's citizens.
I changed my mind...twice.
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| « Last Edit: Jul
22nd, 2004, 8:26pm by imisshimbad
» |
IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #205 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 11:10am » |
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Also, other people's opinion's may be
in flux and some of that may be from all the
information I've been posting. That's pretty
normal I'd say, for people to change their minds
when new info is added. I got an email from
someone who changed their mind, and yet another
person posted "Fuck it, I'm voting for NADER",
(way to fucking go brother!). Even in general, a
lot of pro Kerry folks aren't posting anymore, are
they still pro-Kerry? Are they reevaluating? Are
their positions changing?
So Jimmy,
I have to hand it to you for staying vocal, that's
really appriciated. Also, dedication like that is
the best kind of mind to recruit, because unlike
flighty people who change like the weather, you
strike me as someone who once you have decided
what's best, you'll difficult to dissuade from
your goals. That makes the best kind of Nader
supoporter because if we don't get an uprising of
awareness (and that takes a few willing to talk
about it to get it started), we are in deep shit.
The world has had it with the rich man's control,
and extremists are already attacking us at home.
It will escalate from this point onward if either
Kerry or Bush get's in and does what they have
stated they will do. It will get worse. That's how
critical this election is. This is about money
versus people.
So, I would like to
ask you to reconsider all things Jimmy, spend the
weekend on it. Consider not supporting a war
president just to stop a worse war president, help
us get the candidate for peace heard in the
debates. If we can get him into a debate, there is
literally no telling what can happen, (Linclon was
an Independent candidate who came out of nowhere
to win, he had a message about keeping the Union
together, not unlike the scope of message we have
now). We may not be hearing a lot of vocal support
for Nader now, but most American's are sick of
losing to the corporate bullshit. Just like the
support for Kerry is getting quiet here on the
forum (oOOo, and Mij, you guys still sure you want
President Kerry after seeing all this
information?), it may also be hapening in the US
population too. They may be getting fed up and
primed for a shift in opinion, and that may fuel
even more to change. If it doesn't happen we're
all fucked by the rich folk once again, so why not
try to change it this time...and we have an
EXCELLENT candidate this time...all we gotta do
make sure our neighbors see what we stand up for
in order to empower them too.
So, I
know you like cartoons, and here's a little olive
branch for you to consider while you consider my
request that you reconsider, (lol). We won't see
these cartoons on CNN, instead they're cartoons
from around the world. It's how mainstream
newspapers view the US. Although I take issue with
a couple of them, it's a good view of the effect
corporate has had on US policy abroad, and it's
gotta stop. These cartoons are uncensored by US
corporate owned media.
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| « Last Edit: Jul
22nd, 2004, 12:03pm by
imisshimbad » |
IP
Logged |
Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #206 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 11:11am » |
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When viewing these cartoons, I would
ask the reader keeps in mind that BOTH Bush and
Kerry plan to force the corporate/military
occupation in Iraq, and also, they both want to
keep selling billions in weapons to Israel.
Please keep in mind also that Nader has stated
that he will immediatly start pulling the military
AND corporate occupation, as well as puppet
government from Iraq. The corporate push is over
if Nader get's in, and he doesn't owe a dime to
corporations.
What a fine president
he would make, and what a beautiful country we'd
become...
...instead of this...
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IP
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
imisshimbad
L.O.R.D.
Posts: 1050
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #207 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 11:11am » |
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| « Last Edit: Jul
22nd, 2004, 11:41am by
imisshimbad » |
IP
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Blitzer: One of the major differences
between you on the one hand, and the Democrat and
Republican presidential tickets on the other hand,
is that you want to get out of Iraq as quickly as
possible.
| | |
swiftkicknow
L.O.R.D.
Attempt the absurd to
achieve the impossible
Posts: 1417
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #208 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 12:21pm » |
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Quote:
What's
supposed to be the message of this one?
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IP
Logged |
...so I'm watchin' and I'm waitin',
hopin' for the best...
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Larry The Dwarf
Full
Member
He made me do it, Dave.
He's such a creep.
Posts: 189
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Re:
URGENT: STOP RALPH NADAR!!
« Reply #209 on: Jul
22nd, 2004, 1:28pm » |
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on Jul 22nd, 2004,
12:21pm, swiftkicknow
wrote:
What's supposed
to be the message of this one?
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My
guess would be something to do with the statue of
liberty holding a smoking gun. |
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IP
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"...that's like if I said 'my
argument is sound because HAM SANDWICH'" -
Alex Jones
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